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Who wants to see a magic trick?

Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
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  • #86873
    madness
    Participant

    For my first trick, you send me two lines from the tableau of a quagmire cipher, and I tell you
    which it is: quagmire 1, 2, 3, or 4, or just random garbage. You can use keywords that are as
    wacky as you like, so the keys look random.

    If you can figure out how I do it, you win.

    Who wants to play?

    #86875
    The-Letter-Wriggler
    Participant

    Do the two line have to be consecutive?
    Do they have to be within the keyword segment of the marix?
    Can you tell me which quagmire is the following?

    KJIHGFEDCBAZYXWVUTSRQPONML
    HGFEDCBAZYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJI

    #86883
    madness
    Participant

    @TLW,

    1. They do not have to be consecutive.
    2. I don’t understand your second question.
    3. Quagmire 1. Your keyword was the alphabet written backwards.

    #86899
    madness
    Participant

    @TLW,
    BTW, it may appear that it took a long time to figure it out, but it did not. My answer awaited moderation since Oct 23rd.
    I wouldn’t want you to think that it wasn’t really magic.

    #86929
    madness
    Participant

    @TLW,
    It’s also a Q2 and a Beaufort.

    #87209
    madness
    Participant

    TLW’s comment has led me down a rabbit hole, and here is what I found.
    Did you know that there are 13 ciphers that are simultaneously quagmire 1 and quagmire 2 ciphers?
    One is the Vigenere, which is trivially all sorts of quagmires. Another is the Beaufort, which
    is created with the keyword ZYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJIHGFEDCBA. The other 11 have these “keywords”:

    ADGJMPSVYBEHKNQTWZCFILORUX
    AFKPUZEJOTYDINSXCHMRWBGLQV
    AHOVCJQXELSZGNUBIPWDKRYFMT
    AJSBKTCLUDMVENWFOXGPYHQZIR
    ALWHSDOZKVGRCNYJUFQBMXITEP
    APETIXMBQFUJYNCRGVKZODSHWL
    ARIZQHYPGXOFWNEVMDULCTKBSJ
    ATMFYRKDWPIBUNGZSLEXQJCVOH
    AVQLGBWRMHCXSNIDYTOJEZUPKF
    AXUROLIFCZWTQNKHEBYVSPMJGD

    If you didn’t notice, then let me point out that they are the affine cipher keys.

    Then today I learned that there are 13 Q3s that have all of the even-numbered rotations of the Vigenere
    in their tableaux. They are created with these keywords:

    ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ (trivially)
    ADCFEHGJILKNMPORQTSVUXWZYB
    AFCHEJGLINKPMROTQVSXUZWBYD
    AHCJELGNIPKRMTOVQXSZUBWDYF
    AJCLENGPIRKTMVOXQZSBUDWFYH
    ALCNEPGRITKVMXOZQBSDUFWHYJ
    ANCPERGTIVKXMZOBQDSFUHWJYL
    APCRETGVIXKZMBODQFSHUJWLYN
    ARCTEVGXIZKBMDOFQHSJULWNYP
    ATCVEXGZIBKDMFOHQJSLUNWPYR
    AVCXEZGBIDKFMHOJQLSNUPWRYT
    AXCZEBGDIFKHMJOLQNSPURWTYV
    AZCBEDGFIHKJMLONQPSRUTWVYX

    Try generating a tableau and see what I mean.

    And if that weren’t enough, there are (2^13)(13!)/26 (trillions) Q3 ciphers that have ROT13
    as one of the lines in their tableaux. Here is an example keyword and tableau:

    keyword: WVTZAQPLKRHBSJIGMNDCYXEUOF

    tableau:
    KGUEWZCIDNSBYXTHRJMPVQAFOL
    GEAZLHWXFOCDVTRNMYUJKSBPQI
    UASBGDKZLPVWRHNFOTQXMYCIJE
    EZBHINLTPQWFKRMOUVAYGCDJSX
    WLGIDXBPHRAZSJYTVQKOCUENMF
    ZHDNXOIRJSLPGMUQAKBVEWFYCT
    CWKLBIAFZTUEQPJXYOVNSMGHRD
    IXZTPRFYOUDNWVKMGCESLBHQAJ
    DFLPHJZOTVEXAQSYCUWMBGIRKN
    NOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLM <- ROT13
    SCVWALUDEXMGOFPIJNYHQRKZTB
    BDWFZPENXYGIUOQJSMCRAKLTVH
    YVRKSGQWAZOUPLIEXFTDJNMBHC
    XTHRJMPVQAFOLKGUEWZCIDNSBY
    TRNMYUJKSBPQIGEAZLHWXFOCDV
    HNFOTQXMYCIJEUASBGDKZLPVWR
    RMOUVAYGCDJSXEZBHINLTPQWFK
    JYTVQKOCUENMFWLGIDXBPHRAZS
    MUQAKBVEWFYCTZHDNXOIRJSLPG
    PJXYOVNSMGHRDCWKLBIAFZTUEQ
    VKMGCESLBHQAJIXZTPRFYOUDNW
    QSYCUWMBGIRKNDFLPHJZOTVEXA
    ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ <- identity is in every Q3 tableau
    FPIJNYHQRKZTBSCVWALUDEXMGO
    OQJSMCRAKLTVHBDWFZPENXYGIU
    LIEXFTDJNMBHCYVRKSGQWAZOUP

    Now, who will submit two lines from a tableau (but not one of my special ones) for me?
    The magic trick is still on.

    #87163
    The-Letter-Wriggler
    Participant


    @madness

    The two lines from the tableau that I gave you were from a Quagmire III
    The keyword was not written backwards but the plaintext alphabet was.

    15 KJIHGFEDCBAZYXWVUTSRQPONML <– The two lines
    17 IHGFEDCBAZYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJ
    18 HGFEDCBAZYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJI <– I gave you

    I checked out your submits for Q1 and Q2+Beaufort

    As a Quagmire I
    08 IJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGH <– reversed
    09 JKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHI
    10 KLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJ
    11 LMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJK <– reversed

    As a Quagmire II with Beaufort coding gives the same tableau.
    15 KJIHGFEDCBAZYXWVUTSRQPONML <– The two lines
    17 IHGFEDCBAZYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJ
    18 HGFEDCBAZYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJI <– I gave you

    #87233
    madness
    Participant

    I think there is one more thing that needs to be clear: Even though you may use a scrambled
    plaintext alphabet, on the tableau an unscrambled alphabet is written across the top. Columns
    are rearranged accordingly. I’m going to put an example of each quagmire here, so we can all
    agree on how it’s done.

    Q1, keyword = FLYINGSAUCER

    abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
    AFCGDTYHWIJUKXLMNEZOBPQRVS
    BGDHEUZIXJKVLYMNOFAPCQRSWT
    CHEIFVAJYKLWMZNOPGBQDRSTXU
    DIFJGWBKZLMXNAOPQHCRESTUYV
    EJGKHXCLAMNYOBPQRIDSFTUVZW
    FKHLIYDMBNOZPCQRSJETGUVWAX
    GLIMJZENCOPAQDRSTKFUHVWXBY
    HMJNKAFODPQBRESTULGVIWXYCZ
    INKOLBGPEQRCSFTUVMHWJXYZDA
    JOLPMCHQFRSDTGUVWNIXKYZAEB
    KPMQNDIRGSTEUHVWXOJYLZABFC
    LQNROEJSHTUFVIWXYPKZMABCGD
    MROSPFKTIUVGWJXYZQLANBCDHE
    NSPTQGLUJVWHXKYZARMBOCDEIF
    OTQURHMVKWXIYLZABSNCPDEFJG
    PURVSINWLXYJZMABCTODQEFGKH
    QVSWTJOXMYZKANBCDUPERFGHLI
    RWTXUKPYNZALBOCDEVQFSGHIMJ
    SXUYVLQZOABMCPDEFWRGTHIJNK
    TYVZWMRAPBCNDQEFGXSHUIJKOL
    UZWAXNSBQCDOERFGHYTIVJKLPM
    VAXBYOTCRDEPFSGHIZUJWKLMQN
    WBYCZPUDSEFQGTHIJAVKXLMNRO
    XCZDAQVETFGRHUIJKBWLYMNOSP
    YDAEBRWFUGHSIVJKLCXMZNOPTQ
    ZEBFCSXGVHITJWKLMDYNAOPQUR

    Q2, keyword = FLYINGSAUCER (this is the easy one to figure out)

    abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
    AUCERBDHJKMOPQTVWXZFLYINGS
    BDHJKMOPQTVWXZFLYINGSAUCER
    CERBDHJKMOPQTVWXZFLYINGSAU
    DHJKMOPQTVWXZFLYINGSAUCERB
    ERBDHJKMOPQTVWXZFLYINGSAUC
    FLYINGSAUCERBDHJKMOPQTVWXZ
    GSAUCERBDHJKMOPQTVWXZFLYIN
    HJKMOPQTVWXZFLYINGSAUCERBD
    INGSAUCERBDHJKMOPQTVWXZFLY
    JKMOPQTVWXZFLYINGSAUCERBDH
    KMOPQTVWXZFLYINGSAUCERBDHJ
    LYINGSAUCERBDHJKMOPQTVWXZF
    MOPQTVWXZFLYINGSAUCERBDHJK
    NGSAUCERBDHJKMOPQTVWXZFLYI
    OPQTVWXZFLYINGSAUCERBDHJKM
    PQTVWXZFLYINGSAUCERBDHJKMO
    QTVWXZFLYINGSAUCERBDHJKMOP
    RBDHJKMOPQTVWXZFLYINGSAUCE
    SAUCERBDHJKMOPQTVWXZFLYING
    TVWXZFLYINGSAUCERBDHJKMOPQ
    UCERBDHJKMOPQTVWXZFLYINGSA
    VWXZFLYINGSAUCERBDHJKMOPQT
    WXZFLYINGSAUCERBDHJKMOPQTV
    XZFLYINGSAUCERBDHJKMOPQTVW
    YINGSAUCERBDHJKMOPQTVWXZFL
    ZFLYINGSAUCERBDHJKMOPQTVWX

    Q3, keyword = FLYINGSAUCER

    abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
    HPKQMABTEVWUXRZFLODYJINGCS
    PXTZVBMFJLYDIKNGSWOAQUCEHR
    KTOVPCHWBXZEFDLYIQJNMGSARU
    QZVFWDOLKYIHNMGSAXPUTCERJB
    MVPWQEJXDZFRLHYINTKGOSAUBC
    ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
    BMHOJGEPUQTSVCWXZKRFDLYIAN
    TFWLXHPYMINJGOSAUZQCVERBKD
    EJBKDIUMSOPNQATVWHCXRZFLGY
    VLXYZJQIONGKSPAUCFTEWRBDMH
    WYZIFKTNPGSMAQUCELVRXBDHOJ
    UDEHRLSJNKMYOGPQTBAVCWXZIF
    XIFNLMVGQSAOUTCERYWBZDHJPK
    RKDMHNCOAPQGTUVWXJEZBFLYSI
    ZNLGYOWSTAUPCVERBIXDFHJKQM
    FGYSIPXAVUCQEWRBDNZHLJKMTO
    LSIANQZUWCETRXBDHGFJYKMOVP
    OWQXTRKZHFLBYJINGVMSPAUCDE
    DOJPKSRQCTVAWEXZFMBLHYINUG
    YANUGTFCXERVBZDHJSLKIMOPWQ
    JQMTOUDVRWXCZBFLYPHIKNGSEA
    IUGCSVLEZRBWDFHJKAYMNOPQXT
    NCSEAWYRFBDXHLJKMUIOGPQTZV
    GEARUXIBLDHZJYKMOCNPSQTVFW
    CHRJBYAKGMOIPSQTVDUWEXZFNL
    SRUBCZNDYHJFKIMOPEGQATVWLX

    Q4, keywords = SPACEGIRL FLYINGSAUCER

    abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
    CKEMROBPDQTJVWXUZHAFLYINGS
    HTJVKWMXOZFQLYIDNPBGSAUCER
    ROBPDQHTJVWMXZFELKCYINGSAU
    JVKWMXOZPFLTYINHGQDSAUCERB
    BPDQHTJVKWXOZFLRYMEINGSAUC
    YCIENRGBSDHUJKMLOAFPQTVWXZ
    AHUJCKEMROPDQTVSWBGXZFLYIN
    KWMXOZPFQLYVINGJSTHAUCERBD
    GBSDAHUJCKMROPQNTEIVWXZFLY
    MXOZPFQLTYIWNGSKAVJUCERBDH
    OZPFQLTYVINXGSAMUWKCERBDHJ
    IENRGBSDAHJCKMOYPULQTVWXZF
    PFQLTYVIWNGZSAUOCXMERBDHJK
    SDAHUJCKEMOBPQTGVRNWXZFLYI
    QLTYVIWNXGSFAUCPEZORBDHJKM
    TYVIWNXGZSALUCEQRFPBDHJKMO
    VIWNXGZSFAUYCERTBLQDHJKMOP
    DQHTJVKWMXZPFLYBIORNGSAUCE
    UJCKEMROBPQHTVWAXDSZFLYING
    WNXGZSFALUCIERBVDYTHJKMOPQ
    EMROBPDQHTVKWXZCFJULYINGSA
    XGZSFALUYCENRBDWHIVJKMOPQT
    ZSFALUYCIERGBDHXJNWKMOPQTV
    FALUYCIENRBSDHJZKGXMOPQTVW
    NRGBSDAHUJKEMOPIQCYTVWXZFL
    LUYCIENRGBDAHJKFMSZOPQTVWX

    #87220
    madness
    Participant

    The trick only works if we agree on definitions.
    Q1: only plaintext alphabet is mixed
    Q2: only ciphertext alphabet is mixed
    Q3: both alphabets are mixed in the same way
    Q4: both alphabets are mixed differently

    #87213
    madness
    Participant

    @TLW, if you only change the plaintext alphabet, then it’s not a Q3 but is a Q1.

    Q1 with keyword ZYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJIHGFEDCBA:

    8 HGFEDCBAZYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJI <- your two …
    9 IHGFEDCBAZYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJ
    10 JIHGFEDCBAZYXWVUTSRQPONMLK
    11 KJIHGFEDCBAZYXWVUTSRQPONML <- … given lines

    Q2 with keyword ZYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJIHGFEDCBA is exactly the same tableau.

    I humbly suggest that you check your Q1 script.

    #87329
    The-Letter-Wriggler
    Participant

    @madness
    My code conforms to the statements you gave in post #87220
    You use the word -keyword- and I’m not sure what you mean by that.

    There are three fields in quagmires:
    [ 1] Plaintext Keyword (above tableau for column reference)
    [ 2] Ciphertext Keyword (first line of tableau – zero shift)
    [ 3] Keyword (also known as Indicator – the shifts/alphabets used)
    also
    [ 4] Offset (the letter that the plaintext key starts with)

    Please decode the following that my code produced.

    Q1 The keys are: Plaintext alphabet: rainbow, Keyword (indicator): DOROTHY
    XAAOCJRGTIDUOHSQFXFMOMRWEUBSMODTZRZDTNXTBKMOSQWLDJMWJJIWHX
    Q3 Keys As Q1
    IPEONKPGFPTUSCXCKKWPKPDOUUWQPOHFRVZDFVKTWFPOACXMNKNORFJVHK

    Do they give the correct plaintexts?

    I do not understand your tableau are they what your code generates?
    All the tableau that you have given are not what I get or use.

    I use the ‘Text Book’ tableau both in code and printout, hence I do not
    think I can give you two tableau lines to work your magic.

    Here are printouts from my application for each quagmire I through IV.
    Note: The lowercase alphabets will not line up in the forum post.

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Quagmire I
    Plaintext:
    Here is a printout from my application after a quagmire

    Ciphertext:
    OVMY PH W IXYJLVPO ZXEI FD QLISYZTZYKG HWOYX Q USHRIBXV

    TYPE : Quagmire I
    CODE : Standard
    KEYS : quagbcdefhijklmnoprstvwxyz, A-Z, FOUR, q
    [ 1] : quagbcdefhijklmnoprstvwxyz
    [ 2] : ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
    [ 3] : FOUR (Length of 4)
    [ 4] : q (Start [ 1] with this letter)
    [ 5] : Text was taken as a whole (carriage returns ignored)
    IKey : *Auto Key Not Used*
    —————————–
    Key to above:
    TYPE : The Cipher Type
    CODE : Standard, Beaufort or Variant Beaufort
    KEYS : Actual Keywords Used
    [ 1] : Plaintext Alpha
    [ 2] : 00 Matrix Alpha
    [ 3] : Keyword
    [ 4] : Plaintext Shift
    [ 5] : The whole, or line by line, text is taken
    IKey : Intermediate Key (Auto PT/CT)
    ——————————-
    Key Tableau Used(4 Shifts)
    -> quagbcdefhijklmnoprstvwxyz
    05 FGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDE
    14 OPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMN
    17 RSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQ
    20 UVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRST
    ——————————-
    The Full Tableau:
    -> quagbcdefhijklmnoprstvwxyz
    00 ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
    01 BCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZA
    02 CDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZAB
    03 DEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABC
    04 EFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCD
    05 FGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDE
    06 GHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEF
    07 HIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFG
    08 IJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGH
    09 JKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHI
    10 KLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJ
    11 LMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJK
    12 MNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKL
    13 NOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLM
    14 OPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMN
    15 PQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNO
    16 QRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP
    17 RSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQ
    18 STUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQR
    19 TUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRS
    20 UVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRST
    21 VWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTU
    22 WXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUV
    23 XYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVW
    24 YZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWX
    25 ZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXY

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Quagmire II
    Plaintext:
    Here is a printout from my application after a quagmire

    Ciphertext:
    OTJC PD U QZXDVWGL DZEC NC OGQTXWRIXFO FULCZ O HWFVCHZT

    TYPE : Quagmire II
    CODE : Standard
    KEYS : a-z, MIREABCDFGHJKLNOPQSTUVWXYZ, FOUR, a
    [ 1] : abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
    [ 2] : MIREABCDFGHJKLNOPQSTUVWXYZ
    [ 3] : FOUR (Length of 4)
    [ 4] : a (Start [ 1] with this letter)
    [ 5] : Text was taken as a whole (carriage returns ignored)
    IKey : *Auto Key Not Used*
    —————————–
    Key to above:
    TYPE : The Cipher Type
    CODE : Standard, Beaufort or Variant Beaufort
    KEYS : Actual Keywords Used
    [ 1] : Plaintext Alpha
    [ 2] : 00 Matrix Alpha
    [ 3] : Keyword
    [ 4] : Plaintext Shift
    [ 5] : The whole, or line by line, text is taken
    IKey : Intermediate Key (Auto PT/CT)
    ——————————-
    Key Tableau Used(4 Shifts)
    -> abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
    02 REABCDFGHJKLNOPQSTUVWXYZMI
    08 FGHJKLNOPQSTUVWXYZMIREABCD
    15 OPQSTUVWXYZMIREABCDFGHJKLN
    20 UVWXYZMIREABCDFGHJKLNOPQST
    ——————————-
    The Full Tableau:
    -> abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
    00 MIREABCDFGHJKLNOPQSTUVWXYZ
    01 IREABCDFGHJKLNOPQSTUVWXYZM
    02 REABCDFGHJKLNOPQSTUVWXYZMI
    03 EABCDFGHJKLNOPQSTUVWXYZMIR
    04 ABCDFGHJKLNOPQSTUVWXYZMIRE
    05 BCDFGHJKLNOPQSTUVWXYZMIREA
    06 CDFGHJKLNOPQSTUVWXYZMIREAB
    07 DFGHJKLNOPQSTUVWXYZMIREABC
    08 FGHJKLNOPQSTUVWXYZMIREABCD
    09 GHJKLNOPQSTUVWXYZMIREABCDF
    10 HJKLNOPQSTUVWXYZMIREABCDFG
    11 JKLNOPQSTUVWXYZMIREABCDFGH
    12 KLNOPQSTUVWXYZMIREABCDFGHJ
    13 LNOPQSTUVWXYZMIREABCDFGHJK
    14 NOPQSTUVWXYZMIREABCDFGHJKL
    15 OPQSTUVWXYZMIREABCDFGHJKLN
    16 PQSTUVWXYZMIREABCDFGHJKLNO
    17 QSTUVWXYZMIREABCDFGHJKLNOP
    18 STUVWXYZMIREABCDFGHJKLNOPQ
    19 TUVWXYZMIREABCDFGHJKLNOPQS
    20 UVWXYZMIREABCDFGHJKLNOPQST
    21 VWXYZMIREABCDFGHJKLNOPQSTU
    22 WXYZMIREABCDFGHJKLNOPQSTUV
    23 XYZMIREABCDFGHJKLNOPQSTUVW
    24 YZMIREABCDFGHJKLNOPQSTUVWX
    25 ZMIREABCDFGHJKLNOPQSTUVWXY

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Quagmire III
    Plaintext:
    Here is a printout from my application after a quagmire

    Ciphertext:
    PXSZ RH G HQQOKYPV QQDN DD RRHVQDTAQPE IYVZQ R USISNAQX

    TYPE : Quagmire III
    CODE : Standard
    KEYS : quagbcdefhijklmnoprstvwxyz, A-Z, FOUR, q
    [ 1] : quagbcdefhijklmnoprstvwxyz
    [ 2] : QUAGBCDEFHIJKLMNOPRSTVWXYZ
    [ 3] : FOUR (Length of 4)
    [ 4] : q (Start [ 1] with this letter)
    [ 5] : Text was taken as a whole (carriage returns ignored)
    IKey : *Auto Key Not Used*
    —————————–
    Key to above:
    TYPE : The Cipher Type
    CODE : Standard, Beaufort or Variant Beaufort
    KEYS : Actual Keywords Used
    [ 1] : Plaintext Alpha
    [ 2] : 00 Matrix Alpha
    [ 3] : Keyword
    [ 4] : Plaintext Shift
    [ 5] : The whole, or line by line, text is taken
    IKey : Intermediate Key (Auto PT/CT)
    ——————————-
    Key Tableau Used(4 Shifts)
    -> quagbcdefhijklmnoprstvwxyz
    01 UAGBCDEFHIJKLMNOPRSTVWXYZQ
    08 FHIJKLMNOPRSTVWXYZQUAGBCDE
    16 OPRSTVWXYZQUAGBCDEFHIJKLMN
    18 RSTVWXYZQUAGBCDEFHIJKLMNOP
    ——————————-
    The Full Tableau:
    -> quagbcdefhijklmnoprstvwxyz
    00 QUAGBCDEFHIJKLMNOPRSTVWXYZ
    01 UAGBCDEFHIJKLMNOPRSTVWXYZQ
    02 AGBCDEFHIJKLMNOPRSTVWXYZQU
    03 GBCDEFHIJKLMNOPRSTVWXYZQUA
    04 BCDEFHIJKLMNOPRSTVWXYZQUAG
    05 CDEFHIJKLMNOPRSTVWXYZQUAGB
    06 DEFHIJKLMNOPRSTVWXYZQUAGBC
    07 EFHIJKLMNOPRSTVWXYZQUAGBCD
    08 FHIJKLMNOPRSTVWXYZQUAGBCDE
    09 HIJKLMNOPRSTVWXYZQUAGBCDEF
    10 IJKLMNOPRSTVWXYZQUAGBCDEFH
    11 JKLMNOPRSTVWXYZQUAGBCDEFHI
    12 KLMNOPRSTVWXYZQUAGBCDEFHIJ
    13 LMNOPRSTVWXYZQUAGBCDEFHIJK
    14 MNOPRSTVWXYZQUAGBCDEFHIJKL
    15 NOPRSTVWXYZQUAGBCDEFHIJKLM
    16 OPRSTVWXYZQUAGBCDEFHIJKLMN
    17 PRSTVWXYZQUAGBCDEFHIJKLMNO
    18 RSTVWXYZQUAGBCDEFHIJKLMNOP
    19 STVWXYZQUAGBCDEFHIJKLMNOPR
    20 TVWXYZQUAGBCDEFHIJKLMNOPRS
    21 VWXYZQUAGBCDEFHIJKLMNOPRST
    22 WXYZQUAGBCDEFHIJKLMNOPRSTV
    23 XYZQUAGBCDEFHIJKLMNOPRSTVW
    24 YZQUAGBCDEFHIJKLMNOPRSTVWX
    25 ZQUAGBCDEFHIJKLMNOPRSTVWXY

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Quagmire IV
    Plaintext:
    Here is a printout from my application after a quagmire

    Ciphertext:
    QWKG SF W TMZGWYPN HMBF PC QJTVZZARZHQ HXNGM Q UEHSFKMW

    TYPE : Quagmire IV
    CODE : Standard
    KEYS : quag, MIRE, FOUR, q
    [ 1] : quagbcdefhijklmnoprstvwxyz
    [ 2] : MIREABCDFGHJKLNOPQSTUVWXYZ
    [ 3] : FOUR (Length of 4)
    [ 4] : q (Start [ 1] with this letter)
    [ 5] : Text was taken as a whole (carriage returns ignored)
    IKey : *Auto Key Not Used*
    —————————–
    Key to above:
    TYPE : The Cipher Type
    CODE : Standard, Beaufort or Variant Beaufort
    KEYS : Actual Keywords Used
    [ 1] : Plaintext Alpha
    [ 2] : 00 Matrix Alpha
    [ 3] : Keyword
    [ 4] : Plaintext Shift
    [ 5] : The whole, or line by line, text is taken
    IKey : Intermediate Key (Auto PT/CT)
    ——————————-
    Key Tableau Used(4 Shifts)
    -> quagbcdefhijklmnoprstvwxyz
    02 REABCDFGHJKLNOPQSTUVWXYZMI
    08 FGHJKLNOPQSTUVWXYZMIREABCD
    15 OPQSTUVWXYZMIREABCDFGHJKLN
    20 UVWXYZMIREABCDFGHJKLNOPQST
    ——————————-
    The Full Tableau:
    -> quagbcdefhijklmnoprstvwxyz
    00 MIREABCDFGHJKLNOPQSTUVWXYZ
    01 IREABCDFGHJKLNOPQSTUVWXYZM
    02 REABCDFGHJKLNOPQSTUVWXYZMI
    03 EABCDFGHJKLNOPQSTUVWXYZMIR
    04 ABCDFGHJKLNOPQSTUVWXYZMIRE
    05 BCDFGHJKLNOPQSTUVWXYZMIREA
    06 CDFGHJKLNOPQSTUVWXYZMIREAB
    07 DFGHJKLNOPQSTUVWXYZMIREABC
    08 FGHJKLNOPQSTUVWXYZMIREABCD
    09 GHJKLNOPQSTUVWXYZMIREABCDF
    10 HJKLNOPQSTUVWXYZMIREABCDFG
    11 JKLNOPQSTUVWXYZMIREABCDFGH
    12 KLNOPQSTUVWXYZMIREABCDFGHJ
    13 LNOPQSTUVWXYZMIREABCDFGHJK
    14 NOPQSTUVWXYZMIREABCDFGHJKL
    15 OPQSTUVWXYZMIREABCDFGHJKLN
    16 PQSTUVWXYZMIREABCDFGHJKLNO
    17 QSTUVWXYZMIREABCDFGHJKLNOP
    18 STUVWXYZMIREABCDFGHJKLNOPQ
    19 TUVWXYZMIREABCDFGHJKLNOPQS
    20 UVWXYZMIREABCDFGHJKLNOPQST
    21 VWXYZMIREABCDFGHJKLNOPQSTU
    22 WXYZMIREABCDFGHJKLNOPQSTUV
    23 XYZMIREABCDFGHJKLNOPQSTUVW
    24 YZMIREABCDFGHJKLNOPQSTUVWX
    25 ZMIREABCDFGHJKLNOPQSTUVWXY

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    #87345
    madness
    Participant

    The way you are writing your tableaux is a handy way for encrypting and decrypting, where you can
    see the keywords. But I think of quagmires as periodic substitution ciphers. Each substitution
    has a key that is a scrambled alphabet, and it takes the straight alphabet as its input.

    If you don’t try to think of it this way, you are going to miss out on some beautiful math(s).

    #87334
    madness
    Participant

    quagmire1.py dec dorothy rainbow XAAOCJRGTIDUOHSQFXFMOMRWEUBSMODTZRZDTNXTBKMOSQWLDJMWJJIWHX
    ujfafntbwqmidfmnlfjwpfbwpiuufajwcgiawxfaujfainbowczwvpizof

    quagmire1.py dec epspuiz rainbow XAAOCJRGTIDUOHSQFXFMOMRWEUBSMODTZRZDTNXTBKMOSQWLDJMWJJIWHX
    thereisnoplacelikehomenomatterhowfarovertherainbowyoumaybe

    quagmire3.py dec dorothy rainbow IPEONKPGFPTUSCXCKKWPKPDOUUWQPOHFRVZDFVKTWFPOACXMNKNORFJVHK
    thereisnoplacelikehomenomatterhowfarovertherainbowyoumaybe

    What text book are you using?

    I conform to these:

    https://www.cryptogram.org/downloads/aca.info/ciphers/QuagmireI.pdf
    https://www.cryptogram.org/downloads/aca.info/ciphers/QuagmireII.pdf
    https://www.cryptogram.org/downloads/aca.info/ciphers/QuagmireIII.pdf
    https://www.cryptogram.org/downloads/aca.info/ciphers/QuagmireIV.pdf

    What the ACA and I are doing differently from you is to put the shift key under A.
    This should not affect the magic trick. What does affect it is that you should straighten
    out the plaintext alphabet, so that the rows of the tableau are scrambled.

    Using QUAG as the alphabet key and FOUR as the shift key, I get these rows of the Q1 tableau:
    FHIJKLGMNOPQRSTUDVWXEYZABC
    OQRSTUPVWXYZABCDMEFGNHIJKL
    UWXYZAVBCDEFGHIJSKLMTNOPQR
    RTUVWXSYZABCDEFGPHIJQKLMNO

    Similarly, for Q3 you should straighten out the plaintext alphabet, so that the tableau lines
    get scrambled even more, like these, for QUAG and FOUR:
    IKLMNOJPRSTVWXYZFQUAHGBCDE
    RTVWXYSZQUAGBCDEOFHIPJKLMN
    GCDEFHBIJKLMNOPRUSTVAWXYZQ
    TWXYZQVUAGBCDEFHRIJKSLMNOP

    (It wouldn’t be much of a trick if I could just see that you have QUAGBCDEFHI… rotated on each line.)

    Same for Q4, where I get these for FOUR and QUAG and MIRE:
    HKLNOPJQSTUVWXYZFMIRGEABCD
    QTUVWXSYZMIREABCODFGPHJKLN
    WYZMIRXEABCDFGHJUKLNVOPQST
    ACDFGHBJKLNOPQSTRUVWEXYZMI

    #87339
    madness
    Participant

    Here’s a reimagining of the trick:
    Choose your alphabet keywords and cipher.
    Choose one letter as your shift key and encrypt the alphabet ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.
    Choose a different letter as shift key and encrypt the alphabet again.
    Post the two outputs.
    From them, I can almost always determine the cipher and keywords.

    Example:

    quagmire3.py enc x flyingsaucer ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
    GEARUXIBLDHZJYKMOCNPSQTVFW
    quagmire3.py enc j flyingsaucer ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
    VLXYZJQIONGKSPAUCFTEWRBDMH

    Post
    GEARUXIBLDHZJYKMOCNPSQTVFW
    VLXYZJQIONGKSPAUCFTEWRBDMH

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